Please use this section of the website to share your thoughts on the rankings and the project as a whole.

72 replies on “Feedback”

It’s been a few months since Callum Smith lost to Canelo Alvarez. When are y’all gonna update his record to 27-1?

Like any true, knowledgeable boxing fan I hate the Aphabelt club — IBF, WBC, WBA, NABF, etc. But when are we going to start hearing your rankings announced before one, or two, of your top-ranked guys step into a ring? Seems there needs to be a ‘PR’ push to get you guys established, and start removing the “legitimacy” from these fraudulent entities.

We rely on you and your friends for that, Patrick. We are strictly volunteer and have no budget, which means we’ll never sell out and never become compromised but also means we can’t afford an ad in a high school newspaper, never mind the New York Times.

I am new to your ranking system and was wondering why some of your championship titles are vacant and been for a long time (one of them since 1987). How can such a long vacancy ever be filled? Thanks.

Greetings Mr. Fernandez and welcome to the land of common sense. Keep in mind, that’s why we exist: for clarity and common sense. We are not out for profit and have nothing to sell. We do not have the goal of “filling championships,” that’s precisely the goal of the profit-driven WTF organizations. To be sure, we would love nothing more than to see the championships filled, but we won’t defy common sense to force it. If a divisional throne is open, then only the top two can contend for it. Not #3, or #4, or #5, or in the case of the WTF organizations, the #9 or the #29. The top two are the recognized best in the division. They compete. That’s it.

The fact that five divisions haven’t had a legitimate champion in over 10 year and 2 of those since the last century serves to spotlight the disaster that is the current model. You can go right to the rankings and see what has to happen for the open championships to finally see an overdue successor: #1 vs #2. The best competing against the best. That’s what the idea of sport is all about.

When boxing was rational, it was a surprise to see an open championship and even then, it was for a brief time. Why is that? Because the contenders didn’t have the option of calling themselves “world champions” and having commentators and writers doing the same simply because a cadre of tin-can racketeers say so and had some stooge holding up a WBS belt. All of the contenders knew where to aim for -the top of the heap, the singular champion.

I refer to tbrb for the rankings. But the only area where i fear it lacks influencential data, ducking. When a fighter is being avoided by those above him, which is increasingly a bigger and bigger problem, i feel the rankings should reflect that. Win and losses against which opponents should dominate, then ducking should then factor in.

Eugene, I understand the sentiment and proposed early on that members factor that in when considering the P4P List. We cannot, however, factor it into the divisional rankings. We can only rank fighters based on what they do, not on what they should do or would do if they could. Divisional rankings must be merit-based but they shouldn’t be speculative. Speculating is fun for all-time hypothetical match-ups but it would be ruinous here.

Thank you DJ. Not bad for an operation with no purse! Stewart Howe is a stand-up guy. As for Rigondeaux, he still claims the so-called lineal championship at jr. feather. However, that only means he was the last legitimate champ there, and does not necessarily mean he is the rightful champ indefinitely. We will be reaching out to him soon, as in very soon, to see what his intentions are. If he is staying at bantam, we’ll consider his throne abdicated.

Nice upgrade! No complaints from me.

I think that the current Rankings page should also show the last match of each boxer.

And of course I’d love you to make women’s boxing rankings.

Greetings from Uruguay!

Greetings to you and Uruguay. The record-keepers will consider your idea about including the last match of each contender. We’ve had requests over the years to include women’s boxing rankings and MMA rankings as well but as volunteers with many other things going on (like making a living!), we’re pretty much extended as much as we can be already. In addition, I don’t believe that most of our board members monitor women’s boxing nearly as closely. (And for that matter, even less follow MMA).

We appreciate your kind words about our upgrade!

I’m liking the new layout as well. maybe you can add a small flagicons for the fighters. just for the color. also I’m always been interested in prospects. maybe there can be like an additional 2-3 names per weight class like Notable Prospects looking to get in top10. just an idea. they dont have to be in order like ranked 11, 12, 13 or anything. just a few names in a list.

Hello! The new design/layout is pretty cool! Way better than the previous one.

Just some stuffs I noticed:

The rankings of Jr. Welterweight has a weird “10” in it.

It looks like:
1
0

instead of:
10

Also, the ranking tables have no uniform alignments (column width and whatnot).

Suggestions: Not sure if it’s feasible but I think it would be nice to have a feature which will show who, when, result and which weight did a boxer last fought when the mouse cursor is hovered to a boxer’s name in the rankings. And if the championship is vacant (open), when hovered, it will show the one currently enclosed in a parenthesis, just to make the rankings look more neat and uniform.

Yeah, it’s mostly UI suggestions instead of boxing stuffs this time.

The Tech is looking at it now. Thanks for the heads-up. I think we’re about maxed out in terms of what we can do as volunteers with a free Tech who is too generous with his time as it is. It would never end if we started adding too many bells and whistles!

As yet there is no archived ranking for April. I really hope that this is an oversight rather than a change in policy. Other than that, I like the new website. Good work!

Thank you Chris. There are still a few glitches on the editing end that we’re working out. The official monthly rankings have not been scrapped. We instituted that to continue a tradition that goes back almost a 100 years now. Note also that the names of the divisions are as they were originally named in The Walker Law. The only “Super” is super middleweight.

Dear board,
a few questions from me:

1.) I really like your strict rules to become a champion. However, how do you justify that the P4P list is headed by two non-champions? I mean, I totally agree with Canelo and Innoue, but still it feels weird and one could make an argument, that a true P4P king should be a true division champion as well.

2.) Was the GGG-Canleo 1 bout officially declared a robbery by the board?

3.) Do you manufacture (any kind of) physical belts which the true champs receive?

Best regards,
Eugene

Hello Eugene/Evgeny,

1. A divisional champion is not necessarily the best fighter in his division. He is not necessarily among the best fighters in the sport either. Usually they are the best in their division, because heat rises if you will, but not always. Was champion Floyd Patterson the best heavyweight in 1961? Most would say Liston was. Was champion Hugo Corro the best middleweight in early 1979? Most would say Hagler was. Leon Spinks? Hasim Rahman? Sometimes, a guy has the style to whip the sitting champion and thus takes the throne, but everyone knows he isn’t the best. Consider it a rule of thumb: the divisional champion is not necessarily the best fighter in the division.

2. No. That was a #1 vs. #2/championship bout and the robbery clause only applies to non-championship bouts where the decision against the rightful winner is so egregious it warrants ranking the official loser over the official winner. The clause also does not apply to draws. We may consider a non-championship bout a “bad draw,” however, and rank accordingly.

3. No, we do not. This is an all volunteer initiative that has zero sources of income. We point to the rightful divisional champs. We’re looking at the truth, not the glitter.

TBRB is ace, it’s my go to every time.

Springs Toledo is the man also, his stuff on here is fine, his books even better. The rest of the team are spot on too.

Thanks for the rankings, the hard work and all the rest.

Quick question… Fury and Klitschko were removed from 1 and 2 in the rankings around November 2016 as they hadn’t fought in a year and didn’t have a fight scheduled…

… but Klitschko almost constantly had fights scheduled. He was fighting Fury for most of that time. Then Browne, then the Joshua fight was announced in December 2016. Should Klitschko have been back at Ranking 1 when he fought Joshua?

Joshua was ranked 1 by TBRB ahead of the Klitschko fight. Should he therefore have been 2?

And if both of those are true… Should the lineage have commenced there, moved to Ruiz and then come back to Joshua?

Hello Ted,

I recall us wrestling with that decision after it was made and AJ-Klitschko was announced. But we had to stand firm, even if it meant going against the grain. (When it comes to legit championships, the “grain” is usually going off into outer space anyway.) The information we had at the end of November 2016 was that Klitschko was turning down fights around that time and in our judgment, based on what we knew and could find out from insiders on the board, the right call was to remove him due to inactivity.

Thanks for the response. I’ve always been of the view that the linear title is something that is often clear in hindsight but less so in the present. For example, people make a case that Fury never lost the title while others believe he won it v Wilder. Others can make a case that there’s no way you can rank him top 2 after coming back from retirements (and drugs bans) and not having a single notable win in his ‘second career’ prior to Wilder. That would leave the title vacant.

Personally I’d say Klitschko v Joshua was closer to a concensus 1 and 2.

Whichever path you prefer, there’s doubt. And there’s only one way to erase that doubt and that’s for Joshua and Fury to fight while they’re still at the top of the division.

Let’s hope, hey.

That was a middleweight bout and not an over-the-weight bout (and it happened to late to discuss last week). Given that these are divisional rankings, we can’t remove him from a division based on a loss that occurred in a different division from which he was ranked. These things tend to correct themselves however: he exits the jr. middleweight rankings anyway due to extended inactivity in that division.

You guys are the most up to date and correct boxing rankings system imo, this shows why too. RING is good too but they are slacking with removing long inactive fighters from their rankings, not as up to date.

Your site looks great but I did notice that the word “annuncio” appears to be spelled incorrectly. I saw a couple small issues like this. I thought you would like to know!

In case you wanted to fix it, in the past we’ve used services from a websites like HelloSpell.com to keep our site error-free.

Hi! Just want to know if the Rosario-Lubin and Williams-Mendoza fights this weekend can still potentially disrupt the #1 and #2 rankings and downgrade the upcoming Charlo-Castano championship fight which is only a few weeks away?

Looks off if they will interrupt the #1 and #2 rank at this point.

Bruce, you shall see tomorrow evening, ET. Keep in mind, we do not seek to preserve an upcoming #1 vs. #2 if another contender deserves to disrupt it. Such a scenario has happened before in these parts.

New to your website / rankings ..looks brilliant…forgive me if you said why before but I can’t see no super fly ranked any reasons ?

When is the last time Luis Ortiz beat anyone relevant? He is hanging onto a top 5 contender ranking without really delivering, while Usyk is way at the bottom despite having just beaten Chisora and having beat #6 Hunter in 2017, more recently than Ortiz has beat any contender.

Usyk has yet to beat a contender at heavyweight. The Hunter win was at cruiserweight. Ortiz has beaten contenders, though not for a while. But “not for a while” is better than “has yet to.” I’ll give you this though, Ortiz is getting a bit stale up there and as those beneath him fight, look for him to be overtaken. I think Usyk is very stale at P4P though. Come September he can make you “right” and me “wrong” depending on how he competes against AJ.

How many guys has Ortiz beaten who are better than Chisora?
Thompson was ancient and in his last fight when Ortiz beat him (and Tony had previously been beat by Malik Scott), Scott was Ko’d by Chisora prior to going the distance with Ortiz. Hammer is like a lower level Chisora, losing to bigger names.

Jenning was a nice win but that was like 6 years ago and Jennings is more of a 2nd rate contender. I just think Ortiz at #5 is a bit generous considering his lack of any meaningful win for years.

Chisora and Witherspoon, both unranked, aren’t necessarily enough to cancel out King Kong’s 34 heavyweight bouts. I don’t disagree that Ortiz is stale up there, but keep in mind that movement has been stunted by Covid and heavyweights don’t fight nearly as often as they should. Ortiz will be overtaken unless he reclaims old form and accepts bolder challengers. Usyk’s bold challenge could launch him up and over Ortiz come September.

Hi,
I appreciate what you guys do here, bringing some sense of order and clarity into the dysfunctional sport of boxing. I find your organisation to be consistently the most fair and objective rankings.

That said, in your latest P4P list Golovkin is still present. Why? What’s the reasoning behind this, because I don’t recall him fighting anyone of note since Canelo. Surely Jermell Charlo should be there instead.

Best Regards

Rohan and DJ Bianca Frost,

The P4P list is there to be critiqued. I critique it all the time, and recognize that there are a few guys getting stale on it –GGG, Usyk, and Crawford. The eye test should never be enough for any rankings system; placements should be based on merit -on what is actually achieved. As for GGG, he is down at #9 and on his way out unless he reverts to his younger form. However, many members count both Canelo losses as “good losses” and many believe he should be 1-1 with him. That is something to consider.

Lomachenko lost to Lopez, who was nowhere near Canelo at the time, and few of us believe that Lomachenko had as much of an argument as GGG did for beating a top guy. As for Jermell Charlo: that Harrison loss hurt him, though beating Castano to become jr. middleweight king later this month would certainly improve his chances of entering the P4P list.

In your P4P, why is GGG still in the top 10 and removes Loma? GGG hasnt fought better opposition for the last 2 years. I think, TBRB is the only site now where GGG was placed in Top 10. Kindly check your list. Loma lost to Teo but he was previously number 1 and when he lost, he was removed completely? And now he’s back, better than ever – will he be able to join the list too? I think he should be.

Greetings.
New to your website, makes for a great conversation starter.
I always find ratings, especially P4P are very very subjective and they will take form of what the individual compiling them likes, which is why this is a great site – they are discussed by a panel before publication much like the Ring ratings.

👍🏼 Totally agree with the majority, my talking point: personally can’t see how Lara sits above Navarrete, does one victory eclipse a finer body of work?

Hello Jaime, and thank you for your support. Mauricio Lara defeated the #2-ranked contender in the world in Josh Warrington, and that can indeed be expected to be a shortcut to the top of the rankings. Navarrete is among the busiest fighters around and we all appreciate fighters who fight, but he has yet to fight and beat a ranked contender at featherweight. Being active is one thing, beating top contenders quite another.

Good morning from the UK

I was checking the P4P rankings and noticed that some of the boxers have an asterisk (*). However there is nothing on page to denote what this means, can you please explain?

Keep up the good work.

Regards
Hardip

Excellent work guys. I hope this takes off in a big way. Judging by the fans comments it should catch on quickly enough. One of the comments I read here asked about getting a boxer’s ranking read out when they are introduced to the ring before the fight. The biggest problem is the sanctioning bodies and promoters. It is unlikely that promoters who are closely aligned to a sanctioning body will allow that to happen. That said it may be worth approaching some of the top promoters asking them to do this on their shows. I think Eddie Hearn might be in favour. If they start doing it on his promotions/shows then many will follow.
I would urge all boxing fans to write/text/tweet (whatever) the top promoters asking them to do this. Pressure form the fans will hopefully pay off.

Hi Springs, I’d be interested to know how the TBRB see the current Fury situation?

Inactive for 18 months and with no date set. Is he that different to the Klitschko November 2016 decision we previously discussed on this page?

Fury is the rightful heavyweight champion of the world; he either has to officially retire or abdicate like he did then in order for there to be an open championship in the division. Barring that, we typically will reach out to his camp after 18-months without a defense, though Covid has caused us to extend the inactivity. If several more months go by and a #1 vs. #2 match is signed, then we’ll consider recognition due to abandonment, which is a form of abdication. Given that his third fight with Wilder has been rescheduled for October, that looks unlikely.

I hope all is well with you and yours.

Thanks for the response. I guess we’ll see what happens between now and October. If that fight gets pushed again I’d question whether he’s an active fighter anymore.

You should definitely try to bring BoxRec.com on board. Theirs is the “go to” site for boxing fans and reference point for anyone interested, yet they seem to be using their own bizarre ranking system when there is no need – They could use yours!

Boxrec’s ranking system works so that it can apply a ranking to every active boxer in the database, TBRB only offers rankings for a small fraction of that, it wouldn’t be the right match.

Yeah I get that, but they could still keep that for the purposes of ranking ALL boxers. They could also be persuaded to include TRBR lists as the “official” top ten in each division. BoxRec is a go to site for boxing enthusiasts as well as casuals who want to know more about boxers’ records etc. It would be great if they bought into this realistic ranking.

Joyce banging out Takam is another result better than any win Ortiz has in years and years. Again, your rating are letting the old Cuban hang on way too long in the top 5

No, the rankings are updated on Tuesdays after 3 days of input and/or debate among the membership. So far, it doesn’t look like Ortiz will be in the top 5 come tomorrow evening. Few members are arguing otherwise but it isn’t over yet. Either way, it’s important to understand that the question isn’t only whether such-and-such a contender “deserves to be ranked at #” but also who has earned a place over him in terms of achievements. Hunter? Parker? Wallin? So far, no. You offered one name, which is, as demonstrated, debatable. Now, Joyce just stopped a tough guy and a former contender in his 13th bout in the division. He has an excellent argument to move up from #7 to #5.

Stopping Dubois in the fight before was also far superior to anything Ortiz has done in years.

In fact, in the past 2 years Ortiz’s only win was over mediocre Alex Flores! That is terrible.

Why has Gary Russell Jr not been removed for inactivity? Last fought the same day Artem Dalakian did

Good ranking list,

Except I can not put Canelo Alvarez at #1. His two biggest fights against GGG he should have lost, and Canelo you could make a case for losing against Trout, (close) and Lara (close) The thing is Canelo is tough. But he has never had a dominant win over a prime fighter in his whole career. GGG should be above him. Juan Estrada should have lost against Gonzalez. (close) Ringo should not even be ranked after stinking out the joint against Casamero!

Speaking for myself, I was not a believer in Canelo at #1, P4P, when those GGG fights were more recent. But they’re history now –he’s had 6 good to very good wins since then. I can’t see much of an argument for anyone over him right now; and keep in mind, he’ll soon fight the next best super middleweight in the world to contest his second legitimate divisional championship.

Please could we have say the top 30 in each division, which would help greatly fans with less experience than the business pros when looking at fights

Ian, we wish we could say “Sure! No problem” but this thing is all-volunteer and all of us are pretty strapped for time because we have to eat and feed families too. I tip my hat to your (new?) devotion to the greatest of sports however.

Love your work . Brilliant stuff ..just wondering..

Is it at all possible to see the rankings beyond the top 10 & champion ? I’d love to know the top 30 so I could see who’s knocking on the door on way up or down etc . You must have them ? Maybe you could post every 6 months or so your full rankings like boxing news does with British rankings.

Now that it’s been about 28 months since Rigo last fought at 122 against Ceja, is it finally time to remove him from his lineal championship?

Remember, we don’t strip champions. That activity has a long and ignoble history. In July, Rigondeaux verified on a conference call his intention to eventually return to 122 and he still regards himself as “the best in the world at 122 pounds.” In August, he said “I’m the father of all the little chickens in that division. Everyone knows that’s my division until someone takes it from me. I’m the Lineal 122-pound champion.”

That will make it tough to abdicate him now. However, if a #1 vs. #2 is announced we may well have to move on him because his inactivity could be considered abdication -as in abandonment.

When are Gary Russell, Julian Williams and Wilfredo Mendez being dumped through inactivity. None have fought since before the pandemic

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